Stephen Batchelor: Those Who Can’t Do, Leech


Padmasambhava, a picture I, John Hill, took in...

Image via Wikipedia

NOTE: This post is an opinion not a book review.  Heloise talks trash about Obama–so I don’t think Stephen Batchelor is eligible for a pass on criticism of his work/opinions.  If my methods or language offend, sorry that’s just me.  Anyone is welcome to submit comments, with approval.  I am not putting the man down it is not a personal attack—just his new take on the laws of rebirth.  I used to read his books until I wrote my own.

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/10/a-difficult-pill-the-problem-with-stephen-batchelor-and-buddhism’s-new-rationalists/

great article on the subject of Batchelor’s new teachings, if you want to call them that. Here’s link to his website: http://www.stephenbatchelor.org/

Also an interview: http://www.tricycle.com/reviews/secular-buddhism

Here’s his latest book  Confession of a Buddhist Atheist

He and his wife are traveling all over the world lecturing, ala Blavatsky and Olcott about his new non beliefs in the law of rebirth.  In fact I am going to stop calling it “rebirth” but always use “the law of Rebirth.” Just like the law of gravity on earth and in the universe it is infallible and guides our lives.  It is hiding, dear folks in plain sight.  That is why no one sees it.  It is truly complex, non linear and utterly fascinating.  Those who don’t know it or the laws that govern it should STFU about it.  And that includes “esteemed” “educated” “buddhists” such as the Batchelors.  Yeah, I am calling you out in the name of one of my past lives “HPB.” See you in southwestern France when I get there.

My take: no one is buying this new formulation of uber atheistic Buddhism where the Buddha is stripped of his karmic and rebirth robes. His Buddha is a naked emperor and I for one ain’t buying this Batchelor bullshit.

A spiritual anecdote:  When I was active at my old yahoo website “Theosophy Talks Truth” I encountered people who were following the path and guru, forgot his name will look up, that taught “Who Am I?” and that sort of inquiry and meditation.  I did their practice for a few weeks.  I experienced the “nothingness” they talk about and went on the inner plane and even met their guru who touched my lotus feet and I did the same.  We recognized each other as teacher.  When I was done with that experience I told them: I’ve been there, done that. What else you got?  Needless to say it was not satisfying spiritually.  I have documented that experience there and one day will look for it and post it. 

Here’s a passage I just found on rebirth and the burden of proof on the scientific world to prove its “nonexistence”

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has said that if certain points do not correspond to reality, he is willing for them to be eliminated from Buddhism. This applies to rebirth as well. In fact, he made this statement originally in that context. If scientists can prove that rebirth does not exist, then we must give up believing it to be true. However, if scientists cannot prove it false, then because they follow logic and the scientific method, which is open to understanding new things, they must investigate whether it does exist. To prove that rebirth does not exist, they would have to find its nonexistence. Just saying, “Rebirth does not exist because I do not see it with my eyes” is not finding the nonexistence of rebirth. Many things exist that we cannot see with our eyes.

source: http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/approaching_buddhism/introduction/basic_question_karma_rebirth.html

I am doing a little online research as I read to review a new book on ScientologyInside Scientology” that really blows the covers off cult creators such as LRH. And I ran across this article. See above link.

This guy is A rebirth denier. A rebirther if you will so he is stupidly trying to rewrite and reinvent Buddhism and the Buddha as incompatible with the law of rebirth and the laws of karma. So I say those who don’t know who are proven outsiders leech off true teachers and change their teaching to suit themselves. He has become the laughing stock of those who know the Buddha was all about rebirth and spent the first talks about his recovered past lives after he sat in meditation to become the first insider. Take that Stephen.

Advertisements

About heloise8

Meaning of "trough" -- Trough is the bottom of a transverse wave. And generically means a low point or a place to fill. Venus is related to this meaning. Veins are to be filled, and venusian people are loving. The left is more venusian than the right, hence The Trough--where Heloise helps the great and the small. Heloise the politico from Blogcritics.org. Physics preacher, blogger, gardener, beach lover, book lover, writer, author.

Posted on July 16, 2011, in Book Trough, Homme depot, Pig Trough and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 13 Comments.

  1. Calling it a law does not make it so, you have to prove it in repeated, controlled, predictive fashion to earn that descriptor.  Thermodynamics fits the bill, rebirth does not.  Your assertion that it’s “just like gravity” is factually in error: gravity is consistent, and is described by very specific mathematical formulas, rebirth is not.  By your own grossly antagonistic words, you should “STFU”  about it.  If you want to convince others, please provide your evidence instead of divisive rhetoric.  

    Not post-hoc stories.  Evidence.  Simple solution if this is as obvious as you say.

    It’s a classic example of cognitive dissonance that you plan to expose Scientology (good for you, by the way), a faith tradition with assertions without verifiable evidence, and yet you ignore your own non-critical acceptance of such assertions about rebirth.

    Simple solution:  provide your stable, repeatable, predictive formulas that are unambiguous, a simple thing if this is an obvious “law”.  That’s it.  Burden of proof is with you.

    • I have the evidence dude. I get full of hyperbole sometimes, excuse me for that. But the book is out and no one can understand what I’ve discovered. Like the laws they have to be discovered. I teach science and have spent decades with theoretical physicists so scientific laws are the first thing that comes to mind.

      I am working on setting up the book and the laws as an online course and a in-person course but I have to find the right niche the right audience. But that will come. I have the proof and I’ve put them into book format and there are still some copies out there. I have pulled the book for now, in fact offered a free pdf doc with the laws of rebirth.

  2. Hi, Heliose. I would be happy to see that book and your evidence. And if it is evidence, will be happy to promote it. Where can I get the PDF, and what is your scientific background?

    Looking forward to your reply.

  3. So…I wait with baited breath! Can’t wait for your new book on the “law” of rebirth, as it been peered reviewed at all?

    • Hi Neil,

      Two things the book is “new” in that it never gets old. It is from 2006 but I never promoted it and ended up withdrawing because I decided to return to my day job from which I hope to retire in the next few years. But I just sent Ted a pdf of the book. I still have copies and it can be obtained from Amazon as a used copy probably a hard copy. Let me know what you need I will send a private email to you.

      thanks

  4. That would be great, I’d love a copy, my email address is: neildavidjones@hotmail.co.uk

    Thanks

  5. Wow, “law of rebirth” like the law of gravity? Really? Reality Check: I can test and demonstrate gravity simply by dropping any object to the ground. Furthermore, I can demonstrate that all objects fall at a certain rate, and will hit the ground at the same time. Gravity is predictable and can be described mathematically. Lastly, all of the above can be verified, not just by someone with a PhD in science, but any one of us, including small children.

    Do tell how rebirth can be tested, demonstrated, and verified? Don’t site text, as that requires “belief.” Don’t site the beliefs of another person, as that requires one to follow blindly.

    Show me evidence of rebirth that I can test and verify. You can not.

    The only way I can test rebirth from life to life is to die and awaken in another life and have full recall of this one, and to somehow test those memories, which we know memories can not always be trusted.

    I don’t want anecdotes of people who “claim” to remember past lives. I don’t want quotes of the Buddha saying he remembered.
    And who are you to claim that others won’t agree with Batchelor? MANY of us are secular Buddhists who apply the scientific method to our practice through actually testing the teachings, demonstrating what works, and verifying with others. Many of us disregard or view metaphorically that which can not be tested, demonstrated, or verified.

    Go ahead and maintain your beliefs. Go ahead and do your practice however you wish. No one cares, quite frankly. But don’t try to push your reincarnation belief of us and insult us for not following your dogma, dogma mind you that is no less silly than Scientology.

    I agree Scientology makes incredulous claims, but so do you! We just chose to keep our practice to this life we know we are living, the life we live before our death.

    • Dana if the law of gravity and that the earth revolves around the sun were so common sense why did it take a Newton and a Galileo to sort it out? Don”t oversimplify what we now take for granted. In the future when we have complete control over past, present and future and choose future life, dying and know our past we will find this time as the stone ages. All in plain sight. To your point I actually do not use the word belief when people ask me questions and I respond “I know.” An insider is also a knower. I don’t ask anyone to believe anything. I don’t believe I know.

      Excuse my hyperbole of course people will agree with Batchelor, just not myself. In fact they are doing a retreat in NM this October. As I said it is not a belief nor a belief system. I teach science so I know how the inquiry and the method works.

      You are entitled to your beliefs, no problem. Don’t let my ego get in your way LOL.

      Heloise

  6. Heloise,

    Your belief that you *know* isn’t getting in my way:-) But thank you. You claim you know something, and that’s fine. But if you don’t have evidence for those claims, then you are in fact asking us to *believe*.

    As for why did it take Newton and co so long to understand gravity? I have no idea, but we can test and demonstrate what he realized, not only physically, but mathematically. When he said he understood how gravity works on objects, he didn’t say he just knew, he provided the details of the experiments he did so others could do them as well. He also explained the math he used so others too could verify that indeed gravity is predictable

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying you know does not prove you know anything.

    I still don’t understand what your motive was for tearing Batchelor apart or the people who enjoy his teachings. Notice I say *enjoy* and not believe. Batchelor makes no claims to special information. He is not asking for followers. He simply presents his viewpoint, as do most of us.

    Thank you for the explanations you have attempted, but you have not shown evidence for anything, as a book is not evidence. Christians claim their book is *truth* and the Muslims the Qu’ran, and Scientology has their book and leader who says he KNOWS.

    I will keep my practice focused on this lifetime, and have no concerns for after death,and I view rebirth only in a metaphorical sense.

    • Old impulses die hard. I am not asking anybody to believe but to try the methods. The only thing I won’t do is engage in any heated debates about my product. It’s a product not a cult not a belief system you can buy a product in a store and use it. The only claim I make is that it is my work with the help of some family and friends. An intellectual product and a scientific project. I am not mathematically minded too atlantean for that. Thanks.

      I am only disagreeing with batchelor in my own way. I’ve read his books and like them. You can disagree, dislike no arguments there. End of story IMO.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s